| Kurasa katika mada: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Are general translators capable of translating highly specialized medical texts Uwekaji wa uzi: LilianNekipelov
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Natalie 
Polandi
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Mwanachama(2002)
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LilianBoland wrote:
To Ty, you just probably don't understand abstract type of humor. That's all. No offense.You might get used to it.
... am not Ty, but I need to say that I also don't get the humor. Must be too abstract for me as well
| | | | LilianNekipelov
Marekani
Local time: 22:31
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KIANZISHI MADA | I don't understand what there is not to be understood as sarcastic. | Jul 14, 2012 |
The best option for some clients would be to find translators for medical research materials who would be native speakers of both languages, had at least Master's Degrees in linguistics, were top doctors in the same field as the research and who would agree to work for $0.02/word. I don't get it. What is there not be be understood? You must be both overworked, or temporarily lost a sense of humor. It happens. When I am tired, it happens to me sometimes.
A very important question s... See more The best option for some clients would be to find translators for medical research materials who would be native speakers of both languages, had at least Master's Degrees in linguistics, were top doctors in the same field as the research and who would agree to work for $0.02/word. I don't get it. What is there not be be understood? You must be both overworked, or temporarily lost a sense of humor. It happens. When I am tired, it happens to me sometimes.
A very important question still remains: who should do very complex, medical, technical or even legal translations. What should the reasonable rates be for such translations where the translator would have to learn almost the same as a doctor, or a lawyer, in two languages?
[Edited at 2012-07-14 23:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-07-14 23:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stefan Blommaert
Brazili
Local time: 23:31
Mwanachama(2012)
Kiingereza hadi Kidaji
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| Not participating in mud-throwing, but.. | Jul 14, 2012 |
...as an engineer, mathematician and linguist (yes, I did do MSc's in these fields) I would like to give you an idea of my own preferences when it comes to dealing with a very technical or highly scientific text. In descending order of preference:
1) Text perfectly (from a linguistic point of view) translated by a translator with the necessary background to grasp all the underlying ideas and hidden meanings, deductions ans insinuations
2) Text not so perfectly (still from a linguisti... See more ...as an engineer, mathematician and linguist (yes, I did do MSc's in these fields) I would like to give you an idea of my own preferences when it comes to dealing with a very technical or highly scientific text. In descending order of preference:
1) Text perfectly (from a linguistic point of view) translated by a translator with the necessary background to grasp all the underlying ideas and hidden meanings, deductions ans insinuations
2) Text not so perfectly (still from a linguistic point of view) translated by a translator with the necessary background to grasp all the underlying ideas and hidden meanings, deductions ans insinuations
3) Text badly translated (from a linguistic point of view) by a translator with the necessary background to grasp all the underlying ideas and hidden meanings, deductions ans insinuations
4) Text badly translated by someone who doesn't have the necessary technical or scientific background, and should stick to translating texts for fortune cookies.
And before someone starts yelping that a comma or a different synonym can change the entire meaning of the text, I will say that I am fully aware of that and that I fully agree. The thing is that, if you do not grasp the ideas behind the text you are translating, you will only by chance get these linguistic things right. Vice versa; it is not because all the commas are in the right place that the text makes technical sense. I know what I am talking about: 90% of the translations I carry out, are patents. In many cases the authors of these texts are native speakers/writers, but are sollicitors and definitely NOT engineers or scientists. The texts they write are frequently linguistic marvels (sometimes with a staggering degree of logical constructions), but unfortunately ready for the bin (from a technical point of view), simply because their authors didn't have a clue what they were talking or writing about. Terribly sorry to shatter all the wonderful ideas of these pure-bred linguists (theories with which, in theory, I couldn't agree more!), but if one has to choose, there are most definitely cases where the contents of the present prevails over the wrapping paper the present comes in.
It goes without saying that literary translation is a completely different ball field and that the rules there are quite different, with linguistic aspects and criteria to judge a translation definitely taking the lead again.
What is important, for anyone and in any field for that matter, is that one should be aware of what one CAN and what one CANNOT do. Show the necessary self-criticism towards the work you are carrying out and do not think too easily that you know everything.
[Edited at 2012-07-15 09:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
Uingereza
Local time: 03:31
Kiibrania hadi Kiingereza
| Well, I am Ty :-) ...and I still don't see the humour | Jul 14, 2012 |
No offence, but I'm not sure why you keep mentioning me by name, I was far from the only person who "didn't get it" - see relevant page where several native speakers question your sincerity and this page where Natalie made it clear she didn't either.
As I said, humour in a foreign language is a difficult beast to tame.
It may just be a case of bad signposting, your title would indicate to the reader that what you had to say in that post was sincere, not tongue in cheek... See more No offence, but I'm not sure why you keep mentioning me by name, I was far from the only person who "didn't get it" - see relevant page where several native speakers question your sincerity and this page where Natalie made it clear she didn't either.
As I said, humour in a foreign language is a difficult beast to tame.
It may just be a case of bad signposting, your title would indicate to the reader that what you had to say in that post was sincere, not tongue in cheek.
As I'm sure you are aware, $0.02 is an unfortunate reality in this industry for some breeds of translators, so the incongruity of you using that figure was nowhere near enough, in my humble opinion, to create the impression of humour. ▲ Collapse
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MikeTrans
Ujerumani
Local time: 04:31
Kitaliano hadi Kijerumani
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| I've just changed the PHD from my last post into PhD... | Jul 14, 2012 |
...I guessed well: nobody did notice...Ah, these amateur linguists
To be taken with humor,
Mike
| | | | Samuel Murray
Uholanzi
Local time: 04:31
Mwanachama(2006)
Kiingereza hadi Kiafrikana
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| Medical texts or academic texts | Jul 15, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
Do you believe that general translators, even if they claim that they have some medical translation experience, are capable of translating highly specialized medical texts, especially texts related to medical research and finding new ways of treatment of certain devastating diseases and testing of new medications? These texts are written by university professors...
I get the impression that your question relates specifically to the translation of academic papers, in which the client is often a bit strapped for cash (even if they had had a sizeable grant), and not to translations done for medical companies who have lots of money to spend on extensive quality control procedures.
The problem with academic paper translations is that all such papers are highly specialised, but at the same time they tend to have a certain style in common which is a specialisation in itself. I do believe there can be such a thing as an academic paper translator, i.e. a translator who is used to translating these types of documents for a variety of subject fields. However, that is not a "general" translator either, is it?
I'd be interested in knowing your definition of "general translator". I consider myself to be a general translator, and I do "claim" to have some medical translation experience. I'm very clear about my experience, training and expertise when I get any new medical translation clients. Some might think that this is a very amateurish approach, but it keeps me safe because the client knows exactly what he's going to get.
| | | | Natalie
Polandi
Local time: 04:31
Mwanachama(2002)
Kiingereza hadi Kirusi
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Msimamizi wa mdahalo huu SITE LOCALIZER
LilianBoland wrote:
The best option for some clients would be to find translators for medical research materials who would be native speakers of both languages, had at least Master's Degrees in linguistics, were top doctors in the same field as the research and who would agree to work for $0.02/word. I don't get it.
Neither do I...
You must be both overworked, or temporarily lost a sense of humor.
Oh yes, this must be the reason!
A very important question still remains: who should do very complex, medical, technical or even legal translations.
The answer is rather simple: people competent in the field with a good command of source and target languages.
What should the reasonable rates be for such translations where the translator would have to learn almost the same as a doctor, or a lawyer, in two languages?
This is a completely different question that should be discussed in a new thread. It has been discussed a lot, actually - please make a search in other forums. I would like to add a minor comment only, re your post elsewhere:
Unless this is just another example of sarcasm or humor too abstract for me to understand, you must be a complete newbie in the field of translation. In case you are going to run a successful translation agency I would recommend extensive reading in the field.
| | | | LilianNekipelov
Marekani
Local time: 22:31
Kirusi hadi Kiingereza
+ ...
KIANZISHI MADA | Some people just don't understand sarcasm. | Jul 15, 2012 |
Just read more of Bernard Shaw. Yes, although it hard for me to comprehend that people don't understand sarcasm,but many American people also don't understand most of British humor, although I like some shows.
I absolutely agree with Stefan, with everything he said.
[Edited at 2012-07-15 10:39 GMT]
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Ty Kendall
Uingereza
Local time: 03:31
Kiibrania hadi Kiingereza
| Verbal humour doesn't translate on here | Jul 15, 2012 |
I'm saying this from personal experience. I have to rein in my own sense of humour on here frequently. Verbal humour just doesn't really work on these forums, partially because of the mode of communication (written) and partially because these forums are a meeting place between people from a myriad of cultures and linguistic backgrounds.
Given that humour is extremely culturally and linguistically specific - you should tread carefully when constantly trying to make a joke. Either th... See more I'm saying this from personal experience. I have to rein in my own sense of humour on here frequently. Verbal humour just doesn't really work on these forums, partially because of the mode of communication (written) and partially because these forums are a meeting place between people from a myriad of cultures and linguistic backgrounds.
Given that humour is extremely culturally and linguistically specific - you should tread carefully when constantly trying to make a joke. Either the "joke" will just go over everybody's head. as happened here (and no, not just me, as I said other native and non-native speakers didn't see the humour - maybe we are ALL overworked and tired huh?!) or in a worst case scenario, you could end up offending someone.
There's nothing wrong with being a clown, but as the saying goes - "wrong crowd".
[Edited at 2012-07-15 16:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | But it was sarcasm. | Jul 15, 2012 |
Hello,
I don't want to get too caught up in the debate here. But, the 0,04 USD/word was, in fact, meant sarcastically - as several readers at the time immediately recognized and as Lilian later plainly stated.
She then cut the rate in half to try to make her sarcasm more clear. If 0,04 or 0,02 USD/word is not plainly a ridiculous rate for a professional translator, what is?
There are a lot of translators in the world, and I would say that - at least in the case o... See more Hello,
I don't want to get too caught up in the debate here. But, the 0,04 USD/word was, in fact, meant sarcastically - as several readers at the time immediately recognized and as Lilian later plainly stated.
She then cut the rate in half to try to make her sarcasm more clear. If 0,04 or 0,02 USD/word is not plainly a ridiculous rate for a professional translator, what is?
There are a lot of translators in the world, and I would say that - at least in the case of major European and Asian languages - any end-client who is not willing to put in the effort to find a native-speaker, professional translator who is clearly qualified in the given subject matter and for the given text type has no right ot complain about the results.
In theory, agencies ought to provide an efficient way to do this, but "every-language-every-subject-matter" agencies' interests are diametrically opposed to those of their clients.
Serious clients invest the time to find a serious, specialized agency or a handful of freelancers to meet their needs. It's not that hard. Serious translators invest the time to help these clients find them. That's not that hard, either.
As far as the actual topic goes: I agree with almost everyone. (1) It is essential that translations are well written (in an abstract sense) and that the translator fully masters the source and target languages. (2) It is also impossible to translate most texts without precisely understanding what they are about and without being intimately familiar with subject-specific parallel texts and conventions in the target language.
Whether an individual translator has a formal education in the subject matter and an "informal education" in translation or the other way around or even a formal education in a second language and an "informal education" in both translation and the subject matter seems secondary, at best.
And maybe we could we all agree on this: (1) There is a significant minority of excellent non-native translators (I think everyone knows some), and (2) The vast majority of non-native translators produce inferior translations?
Sincerely,
Michael ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michele Fauble
Marekani
Local time: 19:31
Kinorwe hadi Kiingereza
+ ...
Michael Wetzel wrote:
And maybe we could we all agree on this: (1) There is a significant minority of excellent non-native translators (I think everyone knows some), and (2) The vast majority of non-native translators produce inferior translations?
| | | | Ty Kendall
Uingereza
Local time: 03:31
Kiibrania hadi Kiingereza
| Batman and Humour | Jul 15, 2012 |
"When the Joker arrives, however, he is infuriated that Harley would try to kill Batman herself; Harley explains her plan to him, but the Joker only gets angrier, roaring, "If you have to explain a joke, there is no joke!".
________________________________________________________________________
Except that's not what happened......
Michael wrote:
I don't want to get too caught up in the debate here. But, the 0,04 USD/word was, in fact, meant sarcastically - as several readers at the time immediately recognized and as Lilian later plainly stated.
She then cut the rate in half to try to make her sarcasm more clear. If 0,04 or 0,02 USD/word is not plainly a ridiculous rate for a professional translator, what is?
The 0.04USD was from another thread. She only ever mentioned the 0.02USD here. In addition, if you are going to crack a joke, it's probably better not to call it "Of course I am not kidding". There's no tone of voice or intonation in these forums to signal insincerity.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see anyway rushing to recognise the joke...I did see at least 3 native speakers of English (and later a non-native speaker) questioning the seriousness of it.
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Ty Kendall
Uingereza
Local time: 03:31
Kiibrania hadi Kiingereza
| Certainly true | Jul 15, 2012 |
Michael Wetzel wrote:
And maybe we could we all agree on this: (1) There is a significant minority of excellent non-native translators (I think everyone knows some), and (2) The vast majority of non-native translators produce inferior translations?
I do agree with this though
| | | | Natalie
Polandi
Local time: 04:31
Mwanachama(2002)
Kiingereza hadi Kirusi
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Msimamizi wa mdahalo huu SITE LOCALIZER
It is time to return to the subject of the topic.
Thank you,
Natalia
| | | | Ty Kendall
Uingereza
Local time: 03:31
Kiibrania hadi Kiingereza
| In the spirit of coming back on topic..... | Jul 15, 2012 |
Then I think it's not unthinkable that a "general translator" could translate even a quite specialized medical text.
You certainly have to know what you are talking about i.e. you have to grasp the content on a superficial level at the very least, for sure, but you don't need to know how to perform brain surgery to translate information pertaining to it.
Is it beneficial to specialize in the medical arena to aid in the endeavour?....This is truly rhetorical.
Do yo... See more Then I think it's not unthinkable that a "general translator" could translate even a quite specialized medical text.
You certainly have to know what you are talking about i.e. you have to grasp the content on a superficial level at the very least, for sure, but you don't need to know how to perform brain surgery to translate information pertaining to it.
Is it beneficial to specialize in the medical arena to aid in the endeavour?....This is truly rhetorical.
Do you need to be an actual doctor? Hell no, this is overkill.
[Edited at 2012-07-15 13:11 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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