| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Is Trados necessary for a new comer? Thread poster: Toni-Fisher
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Williamson 
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:52
Flemish to English
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| Consistency for the customer equals discount for the translator! | Dec 30, 2011 |
Agencies sell Trados' consistency to their customers, but enforce the discount scheme upon translators. Linguistic skills superfluous.
Trados is not the only tool on the market. However, it is the only tool which was marketed by praising this scheme skyhigh. If you want to be a fasttranslator, buy trados.
| | | | | Most likely... | Dec 30, 2011 |
Williamson wrote:
Agencies sell Trados' consistency to their customers, but enforce the discount scheme upon translators. Linguistic skills superfluous.
Trados is not the only tool on the market. However, it is the only tool which was marketed by praising this scheme skyhigh. If you want to be a fasttranslator, buy trados.
... half (or more?) of the skyhigh price you pay for Trados is used to fund this marketing scheme, otherwise the software would be good enough to sell on its own. There wouldn't be a sea of complaints on its functionality, their customer service, user support, etc. on the web.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 23:52
English to German
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In memoriam | There is one more point | Dec 30, 2011 |
Why I would not recommend using a CAT tool from the very beginning.
Learn how to write first. To a new translator who has yet to figure out the boundaries in terms of "How close do I have to stick to the source text?" vs. "How far can I go because my translation is intended for a different readership/market on different continent?", the use of a CAT tool might mess up your talent and your writing skills. Imagine a young horse that is ridden with spurs and curb bits from day one. Be... See more Why I would not recommend using a CAT tool from the very beginning.
Learn how to write first. To a new translator who has yet to figure out the boundaries in terms of "How close do I have to stick to the source text?" vs. "How far can I go because my translation is intended for a different readership/market on different continent?", the use of a CAT tool might mess up your talent and your writing skills. Imagine a young horse that is ridden with spurs and curb bits from day one. Become a translator first, then use the tools, before the tools are using YOU. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:52
Flemish to English
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| A question of semantics | Dec 30, 2011 |
To newcomers: try to avoid the trados and the discount scheme as much as you can. The less discount scheme-customers, the more you will earn. Why don't you start with Wordfast. Less complicated and no scheme at all.
A Fasttranslator does not mean a translator, who translates fast, but is the name of a certain Dutch agency (add.nl to this word), which witnessed a spectacular growth by enforcing those discounts upon translators. I did not meet any offer of that or some other fa... See more To newcomers: try to avoid the trados and the discount scheme as much as you can. The less discount scheme-customers, the more you will earn. Why don't you start with Wordfast. Less complicated and no scheme at all.
A Fasttranslator does not mean a translator, who translates fast, but is the name of a certain Dutch agency (add.nl to this word), which witnessed a spectacular growth by enforcing those discounts upon translators. I did not meet any offer of that or some other famous/big agencies without a reference to the discount scheme.
On the website, you find the full rate and a reference to consistency, not cost-cutting.
I wonder if such a growth would have been possible with such a scheme.
How side should you be on? The translator side or try to evolve into an agency?
Full-rate of normal language combination: 0.16 eurocents p.w. Rate offered to translator: 50% of that amount + discount scheme x say 20 projects. Calculate the profit yourself.
The 50% of the steep price is not the only way of promoting one particular cat tool. Give a beta-version to testers, who will praise the tool skyhigh on a forum and who will get a hefty discount on a official version.
Hé, I use dragon. So should I give a discount for producing more in a shorter amount of time.
.
[Edited at 2011-12-30 14:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Try and learn | Dec 31, 2011 |
Hi!
I would definitely recommend you to try some CAT-Tools and to buy your preferred one(s). Most of them are compatible with trados, even if it can be a bit tricky with some files.
I am quite surprised that nobody told you about CAT-tools during your translation studies, this is a big lack I think. During my studies, I had a mandatory course about Trados (at that moment, it was THE tool you had to know) and it was really helpful. I think every newcomer should know about CAT-... See more Hi!
I would definitely recommend you to try some CAT-Tools and to buy your preferred one(s). Most of them are compatible with trados, even if it can be a bit tricky with some files.
I am quite surprised that nobody told you about CAT-tools during your translation studies, this is a big lack I think. During my studies, I had a mandatory course about Trados (at that moment, it was THE tool you had to know) and it was really helpful. I think every newcomer should know about CAT-tools. They just belong to the profession. Knowing them also means knowing how and when they can be used efficiently depending of the jobs and on your own needs.
Investing now in a tool will permit you to learn by trying, it can be time consuming but then you 'll know when you can use it, how it can help you and so on. That's even more important if you want to work with/for agencies.
Using a CAT-Tool does not mean giving up your brain or your writing skills, on the contrary. It's just a tool and as any other tools, it can help you being more efficient if it's used properly. If it's the case, you'll be faster indeed, and you'll have more time for other things like looking for terminology and information, reading on special topics you want to be specialized in, many things that are also very important for the quality of your work.
Cheers
Guillaume ▲ Collapse
| | | | B D Finch
France
Local time: 08:52
French to English
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Tony M wrote:
I have since used it on other jobs, and find the glossary (i.e. individual terminology) feature more useful than the actual TM.
I find that one of the most useful things about Wordfast Classic is that when you do a context search it instantly searches all TMs in the same folder as the two you are using (TM and background TM). This is incredibly useful when you have previously translated a word or phrase and want to check your previous translations to see whether they fit or can be adapted to fit the current context. Unfortunately, this functionality is lost in Wordfast Pro. Another advantage of Wf Classic over Pro is being able to put quite long comments and references into the glossary entries.
I was wondering how any of these CAT tools work for Chinese, as compared to European languages.
| | | | | To Toni-Fisher | Dec 31, 2011 |
If you do decide to get a CAT tool, you might want to think twice before making it TRADOS. On any given day, half the posts on this forum are TRADOS support-related, which should tell you firstly that it's the most used, but also that it's the most problematic.
| | | | | This is surely true | Dec 31, 2011 |
TransAfrique wrote:
On any given day, half the posts on this forum are TRADOS support-related, which should tell you firstly that it's the most used, but also that it's the most problematic.
But like you say, one must not forget that the majoritiy of CAT users have Trados and hence there is more request for support.
Just out of curiosity, I searched in the directory for CAT users for any language in a given country. Out of about 6.000 CAT users 4.000 (two thirds!!) own SDL Trados and only 440 OmegaT and 350 Across which are both free for freelancers and certainly not second-rate.
Isn't this interesting? Guess why. Freelancers and agencies are strangely convinced, we don't know why, that they absolutely need Trados. I don't use Trados, as I accidentally don't like all this marketing hype about it. Maybe it's just me.
[Bearbeitet am 2011-12-31 22:37 GMT]
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 14:52
Chinese to English
| Just a bit less useful | Dec 31, 2011 |
BD Finch -
CAT tools work in much the ways you'd expect for Chinese. On certain kinds of text, they're very effective. On other kinds, the segmenting is irritating, because I'd like the freedom to restructure my sentences and paragraphs. (For me it's not too bad, because Chinese sentences tend to be longer than English sentences. For my English>Chinese colleagues, I imagine it can be a real problem.) I get lots of formatting issues, as no CAT tools seem to handle Chinese numbers we... See more BD Finch -
CAT tools work in much the ways you'd expect for Chinese. On certain kinds of text, they're very effective. On other kinds, the segmenting is irritating, because I'd like the freedom to restructure my sentences and paragraphs. (For me it's not too bad, because Chinese sentences tend to be longer than English sentences. For my English>Chinese colleagues, I imagine it can be a real problem.) I get lots of formatting issues, as no CAT tools seem to handle Chinese numbers well, and the fonts are all over the place; plus the obvious issue that Chinese is a different shape, so sometimes very different page layouts are required.
But generally, Trados is usable. It just can't handle the whole end-to-end process. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You are not alone | Jan 1, 2012 |
Hi!
Christel Zipfel wrote:
I don't use Trados, as I accidentally don't like all this marketing hype about it. Maybe it's just me.
It's not just you. I agree with you, but I have Trados and use it only as a « conversion tool ». I tell my clients that I can translate ttx files but that I'll do it with another compatible tool. Most of them accept it.
I think a lot of colleagues are in the same situation: they have Trados but use another software as main tool. I was a wordfast user, but my favourite tool at the moment is MemoQ.
Happy new year to all of you!!
Guillaume
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 08:52
French to German
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| Not alone, indeed | Jan 2, 2012 |
Guillaume Chareyron wrote: Hi! Christel Zipfel wrote:
I don't use Trados, as I accidentally don't like all this marketing hype about it. Maybe it's just me.
It's not just you. I agree with you, but I have Trados and use it only as a « conversion tool ». I tell my clients that I can translate ttx files but that I'll do it with another compatible tool. Most of them accept it. I think a lot of colleagues are in the same situation: they have Trados but use another software as main tool. I was a wordfast user, but my favourite tool at the moment is MemoQ. Happy new year to all of you!! Guillaume
I *could* obviously do this too, but for some strange reason(s), the so-called compatibility of "generic" formats like .TXT is rather awful in the direction MS Windows > Apple OS X.
Also many agencies still think that .TTX can only be used with SDL Trados software... Time to wake up?
| | | | Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 02:52
Italian to English
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I personally only have the 1 year (renewal) version of Trados and for its functions, I see no reason for having to splurge and spend hundreds of euros on a full copy.
I do not find it helps me in any way, especially since I do not deal with texts with many repetitions on a regular basis. Also, you'd be surprised with how much you can do with Microsoft Word, if you know what you're doing.
For instance, there is no reason why you cannot "create" your own translation memor... See more I personally only have the 1 year (renewal) version of Trados and for its functions, I see no reason for having to splurge and spend hundreds of euros on a full copy.
I do not find it helps me in any way, especially since I do not deal with texts with many repetitions on a regular basis. Also, you'd be surprised with how much you can do with Microsoft Word, if you know what you're doing.
For instance, there is no reason why you cannot "create" your own translation memories in Word. There is a find and replace function there but unlike Trados it doesn't update your TM in real time.
All in all, I don't use it unless it's a rare occasion and I need it. Nor do I intend on buying it any time soon! In the mean time I am perfectly content using Word, Open Office and OmegaT. ▲ Collapse
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Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:52
Hebrew to English
| A woman after my own heart.... | Jan 2, 2012 |
sognatrice wrote:
I personally only have the 1 year (renewal) version of Trados and for its functions, I see no reason for having to splurge and spend hundreds of euros on a full copy.
I do not find it helps me in any way, especially since I do not deal with texts with many repetitions on a regular basis. Also, you'd be surprised with how much you can do with Microsoft Word, if you know what you're doing.
For instance, there is no reason why you cannot "create" your own translation memories in Word. There is a find and replace function there but unlike Trados it doesn't update your TM in real time.
All in all, I don't use it unless it's a rare occasion and I need it. Nor do I intend on buying it any time soon! In the mean time I am perfectly content using Word, Open Office and OmegaT.
Totally!
| | | | | In "translation hell" it isn't | Jan 3, 2012 |
Today I received this message from the bottom of the heap translation portal (my emphasis):
Hi,
We have a bulk assignment in Portuguese to English.Please let me know if you are available.
Rate:0.01 US$ per source word.
No need of trados.
Regular assignment with timely payment is assured.
Thanks
My reply was:
I suggest you DO use free online machine translation. Though the flaws will be different, the overall quality provided by US 4-5¢/word human translators is about the same.
It can be taken as certain that unedited MT should deliver significantly better results than US 1¢/word human translators.
| | | | Adam Warren
France
Local time: 08:52
Member (2005)
French to English
| I did get longer jobs through investing with Trados... | Jan 5, 2012 |
...and yet, you need to test the market to see whether it will improve your business. It's no good investing speculatively. You need to have a broad idea what to expect from Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT) software.
I started with Trados in the late 1990s (5 or 6, I think), after having it demonstrated to me by an employer. I am now embarking on Studio 2011. Necessarily, therefore this contribution gives a Trados-oriented viewpoint.
Maybe you should start by downloa... See more ...and yet, you need to test the market to see whether it will improve your business. It's no good investing speculatively. You need to have a broad idea what to expect from Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT) software.
I started with Trados in the late 1990s (5 or 6, I think), after having it demonstrated to me by an employer. I am now embarking on Studio 2011. Necessarily, therefore this contribution gives a Trados-oriented viewpoint.
Maybe you should start by downloading and trying out one of the free packages, say OmegaT, or subscribe to the introductory webinars of a number of proprietary CAT software publishers: Trados, DejaVu, Wordfast, etc. Perhaps you could ask for demonstrations at trade fairs (Expolangues or the like). Also ask for advice from your local translators' organisation: Société Française des Traducteurs, ATA, Institute of Translation and Interpreting, and so on. The fact remains that Trados enjoys a wide market consensus, and possibly a majority preference.
The attraction of the packages I use (the Trados TagEditor and Studio programs) is their efficiency in processing formats like Excel, PowerPoint and complicated Word documents with lots of headers, footers, text boxes, tables and footnotes. I should say that I am increasingly dissatisfied with "steam" Trados Workbench (up to 2007), which repeatedly balks at new segments, sending out "access denied" messages, or fails to exit cleanly from some segments, which you then have to "Close without saving". I think the Windows environment has evolved, and some adjustments are needed, but combing through the Trados support information to find the right article on the subject is time-consuming. Besides, with two generations of Studio on the market, Trados 2007 has or is about to become "sunset software" (outdated).
One of the good things about investing in the new Trados Studio software is that you can run Trados 2007 concurrently with Studio, although you have to run specific routines to switch between the versions.
The problem with the market is its uneven state of preparedness. One of my leading clients insists on my using Trados 2007, and even specifies that I am not to use the Trados 2007 TagEditor XML editor for some documents, even though their complicated formatting makes them manifest candidates for this. There are articles on the web about "dodges" for these clients, such using Studio to translate files converted into TTX using TagEditor then re-converting the translated files from TTX to the "native" format, or exporting the relevant segments from Studio-format translation memories and importing them into Workbench TMs, then pre-translating, so as to provide your client with the "uncleaned" bilingual version.
Another client, on the other hand, has recently evolved to Trados Studio.
To sum up, you need to sound out your clients on what they are using and whether they prefer your using CAT software. You ought to test the available software in a trial environment, and assess what investing in it can do for you. Mere speculative investment, as I said before, is unwise: to invest implies answering a manifest need.
As an earlier contributor said, it won't think in your stead, and burnishing your style by good reading and consulting sound reference works is another aspect of our craft.
Here are some ProZ links:
Trados beginner's guide
OmegaT review
I hope this helps.
With kind regards,
Adam Warren (IanDhu - 41189) ▲ Collapse
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