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конский щавель
кривульник

Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

медвянка = подмаренник настоящий (dial., медвяница)

English translation:

Galium verum, yellow bedstraw, lady's bedstraw, cheese-rennet, curdwort, bedflower, fleawort, maid's hair, yellow cleavers

Added to glossary by Tim Sergay
Jun 4, 2010 01:06
13 yrs ago
Russian term

медвянка

Russian to English Science Botany
From 2000 novel by A.P. Chudakov Lozhitsia mgla na starye stupeni; the setting is Northern Kazakhstan, tectonic lake; context: Ещё ближе была Каменуха, по излогим склонам к ней вели перелески из кривульника, на полянах зверобой, душица, болиголов, щитовник, сныть, конский щавель, целые поляны медвянки, от её аромата кружилась голова; над ней гудели, как аэропланы, пухлые шмели-медовики. I have been wondering about LINARIA VULGARIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linaria_vulgaris) which evidently attracts bumblebees as described in this passage. I have also been wondering about LEONURUS SIBIRICUS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonurus_sibiricus) whose English term HONEYWEED contains the corresponding lexical root (MED: HONEY). But I have no real clues and could not find this term even in Dal'. Thank you for any assistance!
Proposed translations (English)
1 +1 options
Change log

Jul 1, 2010 15:16: Tim Sergay changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/874856">Tim Sergay's</a> old entry - "медвянка"" to ""Gaium verum, yellow bedstraw, lady\'s bedstraw, cheese-rennet, curdwort, bedflower, fleawort, maid\'s hair, yellow cleavers""

Jul 1, 2010 15:17: Tim Sergay changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/874856">Tim Sergay's</a> old entry - "медвянка"" to ""Galium verum, yellow bedstraw, lady\'s bedstraw, cheese-rennet, curdwort, bedflower, fleawort, maid\'s hair, yellow cleavers""

Jul 1, 2010 15:18: Tim Sergay changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/874856">Tim Sergay's</a> old entry - "медвянка (dial., медвяница)"" to ""Galium verum, yellow bedstraw, lady\'s bedstraw, cheese-rennet, curdwort, bedflower, fleawort, maid\'s hair, yellow cleavers""

Jul 1, 2010 15:19: Tim Sergay changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/874856">Tim Sergay's</a> old entry - "медвянка = подмаренник настоящий (dial., медвяница)"" to ""Galium verum, yellow bedstraw, lady\'s bedstraw, cheese-rennet, curdwort, bedflower, fleawort, maid\'s hair, yellow cleavers""

Jul 1, 2010 15:19: Tim Sergay changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/874856">Tim Sergay's</a> old entry - "медвянка = подмаренник настоящий (dial., медвяница)"" to ""Galium verum, yellow bedstraw, lady's bedstraw, cheese-rennet, curdwort, bedflower, fleawort, maid\'s hair, yellow cleavers""

Discussion

Tim Sergay (asker) Jun 9, 2010:
Awaiting input from translator of Sholokhov Dear Helpers at PROZ.com: My colleague has forwarded an inquiry to Robert Daglish and Brian Murphy, who worked on Sholokhov; I also have inquiries out with Kazakh botany enthusiasts. I will post anything I learn from those inquiries. Thank you all for your interest and contributions. I am much obliged.
Tim Sergay (asker) Jun 7, 2010:
Synonymy of медвянка and медуница but = роса? Dear colleagues: More puzzling data from 1859. I was looking for evidence that медвянка and медуница are synonyms, but I found a passage in which both seem to refer to a parasite or blight of some kind (honeydew?). Please review. Thanks to all. Случается там, где нет поливных пашней,. что ранние жары, бездождие, осенние холода и роса (называемая там медвянка или медуница) похищают плоды трудов бурят; но, вообще говоря, прекрасные плодоносные земли Забайкалького Края щедро вознаграждают труды земледельца. (Барон Ф.Л. Бюлер, «Очерки восточной Сибири» —Отечественные записки, том CXXV, 1859, июль, с. 225; on Google Books.)
Tim Sergay (asker) Jun 4, 2010:
A French translation of Chudakov's novel treated медвянка as lucernee (ЛЮЦЕРНА, трава лечуха, Medicago sativa, луговой вязель, медунка, красный буркун [Dal'], alfalfa, medic. In translations of Sholokhov, both Сражались and Тихий Дон, by Daglish, ed. by Murphy, медвянка is treated as [white] lungwort (лёгочная трава, медуница). Stephen Garry's translation of Tikhii Don treats медвянка as a synonym for медвяная роса, i.e., honeydew, a symptom of infestation by aphids; "honeydew" is the only solution I feel confident about rejecting. Does anyone like any of these other published solutions for медвянка? Thank you, everyone!
Rachel Douglas Jun 4, 2010:
In Sholokhov The quotation you gave is from "Они сражалисть за Родину". In "Тихий Дон" it's "На сугревах, на курганах, из-под вросших в суглинок самородных камней показались первые, ярко-зеленые острые ростки травы медвянки" as well as a mention right at the end of Book Two. I don't have an English translation.

As for Sweet Woodruff, I wouldn't think so. Your plant is described as growing in the open steppe. The picture shows it as being pretty tall, and blooming in June. Sweet Woodruff is an April bloomer (at least in N. America, Zone 6), with a fragrance like vanilla. Though native to northern Europe, including Siberia, it is a low-growing, shade-loving, woodland plant, as far as I know. Not sure about other galliums.
Tim Sergay (asker) Jun 4, 2010:
Thank you again, Rachel! I don't know how I failed to find this in Dal' myself. I have googled for Tikhii Don and medvianka and found references to its фиолетовые лепестки and белая медвянка ("склонившихся кистях белой медвянки"). The picture you linked shows very light-colored flowers. The white color and the other contextual clues are consistent with sweet woodruff (please see my second note to Marina below). I wish I had the translation of Sholokhov here to check, that would be of great interest, but I haven't succeeded in locating the chapters in which I found these tokens of медвянка.
Rachel Douglas Jun 4, 2010:
Here, somebody says this is a picture of it. http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/irina07r/view/12145/?page=0
Rachel Douglas Jun 4, 2010:
Даль Tim, this is in Dal' - under мед, you can see: "Медвянка и медвяница пск. твер. желтоцветная травка с медовым запахом". I don't know if that's relevant for this author, or if the word is also used by people from other regions than Pskov and Tver. What the plant is, is hard to look up because there seems to be some pop-culture figure named "Медвянка / Honeyfern," who is difficult to exclude from searches. But evidently the plant is named in other works of literature, including ones which have been translated:
"Кузнецов пишет: «Природа представлена в «Тихом Доне» в таких диалектных словах, как <...> растительный мир – названия целебных и других трав, цветов – находит отражение в таких словах, как яровик, чернолист, змеиное око, аржанец, татарник, ***медвянка***, дурнопьян, горюнок, богородицына травка, куга, чакан, сибирек, череда, донник... Из 39 перечисленных диалектных слов, связанных с природой..."
http://fedor-krjukov.narod.ru/slovar.htm
So, that's a lead, if nobody else knows outright.

To answer your question from another thread, no, медвянка is not in the botanical dictionary I cited.

Proposed translations

+1
56 mins
Selected

options

Declined
Could be подмаренник - Galium (also called медовник or медовая трава) but I am almost guessing. I was also thinking about медуница (lungworth - Pulmonaria) but this one is an early spring flower and I am unsure if it actually occurs in Northern Kazakhstan.

Подмаренник русский (подмаренник настоящий, подмаренник северный, желтая кашка, медовая трава, медовник, сывороточная трава)
Цветы в длинной, густой, пирамидальной метелке, с медовым запахом, золотисто-желтые, мелкие.
Растет на сухих холмах, лугах, при дорогах, на межах, склонах, по кустарникам, на полянах. Распространен повсеместно.
http://www.lechebnye-travy.ru/podmarennik.php

Подмаренник настоящий (подмарённик) - народное название - медовник. Это многолетнее растение семейства мареновых. Цветки ярко-желтые, мелкие, собраны в густую пирамидальную метелку, имеющую медовый запах. Цветет растение с конца июня до августа.
http://www.vmiretrav.ru/travi/podmarennik.html

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Note added at 1 hr (2010-06-04 02:25:48 GMT)
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Baytenov's Флора Казахстана (2001) lists both Pulmonaria and Galium, however, the only local species of Galium occurs in Central and Eastern Kazakhstan. It may well be something else of course.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2010-06-04 11:18:10 GMT)
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Sorry my last comment should read "the only local species of **Pulmonaria** occurs in Central and Eastern Kazakhstan". So yes, it could be either Galium - or something else. I wouldn't dare to guess what species this is based on the little information provided.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2010-06-04 11:33:23 GMT)
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Re излогие склоны, I am unsure if this can be linked to криволесье (but then again, I am unsure if кривульник really is криволесье). See http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Криволесье . The word излогие does suggest an idea of some kind of curvature, similar to излучина (реки) which is a river bend.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2010-06-04 13:40:03 GMT)
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Another plant with a strong honey odour is лабазник, or таволга (Filipendula). Baytenov mentions three species of this genus for Kazakhstan.

Лабазник растет на суходольных лугах, сухих склонах, в степях, на лесных полянах и опушках в средней и южной полосе европейской части России, в Сибири и на Кавказе. Подземная часть лабазника состоит из небольшого косого корневища, от которого отходят тонкие корни с клубневидными утолщениями посередине шаровидной или веретеновидной формы, называемые в народе земляными орешками. Прикорневые листья лабазника крупные, продолговатой формы, с дважды-перисторассеченной пластинкой, а стеблевые листочки мелкие, немногочисленные, тоже перисторассеченные. Многочисленные мелкие цветки собраны в компактное метельчатое соцветие с сильным медовым запахом.
http://travlek.ru/page_el_2.html

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Note added at 22 hrs (2010-06-04 23:54:50 GMT)
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Well, the presence of bumblebees may suggest alfalfa (as legumes are bumblebees' preferred plants, along with composites and labiates) - though alfalfa does not have this kind of strong odour. Clover is yet another option.

A good idea would be to try and contact someone - a plant specialist - who is well versed in what can be found in Kazakhstan in what natural setting, and the meaning of local names.

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Note added at 23 hrs (2010-06-05 00:25:57 GMT)
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Also to be considered is the ability to form overgrowth in meadows. Galium can grow extensively in meadows: http://tinyurl.com/23q7gt5 , but so does alfalfa. Re Pulmonaria, the only Kazakh species Pulmonaria mollis does not seem to occur in Northern Kazakhstan.

Dahl's description of медвянка could be interpreted as Galium verum.

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Note added at 23 hrs (2010-06-05 01:02:39 GMT)
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Galium verum, the True Bedstraw called also Yellow Bedstraw, Maid's Hair, Cheese Rennet, grows in some parts in higher altitudes and in other parts on dry banks, chiefly near the sea. It has small bright yellow flowers on upright stems and grows to a height of 60 cm. ***This plant exudes a strong honey-like odour*** and is best gathered in July.
http://www.mariatrebenherbs.com/bedstraw.htm

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Note added at 1 day39 mins (2010-06-05 01:46:03 GMT)
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Tim, please read my comments above - I have responded to your and Rachel's discussion entries here in the answer area.
Note from asker:
Thank you, Marina! I am encouraged by the root MED in the popular names of Galium. Does the collocation "по излогим склонам..." make sense to you? I don't find излогий in dictionaries, either, only отлогий. I thought they might be synonymous, but the result of по отлогим склонам would be redundant, and thus puzzling. Chudakov is a very careful writer. Perhaps излогий implies twisting of some kind, consistent with the idea of криволесье? Thank you again!!!
Dear Marina, I think "sweet woodruff" might just be the vernacular name for the kind of Galium I need, Galium odoratum; please see http://www.successwithseed.org/component/content/article/50-perennial-herbs/765-galium-odoratum-sweet-woodruff?directory=65. It has all the clues provided in this passage: Russian growth area, attracting bees, and a strong odor causing dizziness. What do you think?
Thank you, Marina, for staying interested! I have written my Kazashka friend and asked her to seek a botanist, that's a great idea. Have you seen above under "discussion entries" the data I gathered from published translations of the same term медвянка appearing in Sholokhov and Chudakov: lungwort (Pulmonaria) twice in Sholokhov, lucernee in Chudakov. The доводы in favor of Galium are certainly of interest, but just now I was looking for evidence that Pulmonaria can likewise exude a strong honey-like odor, and found this confirmation http://forum.gotovim.ru/topic1311-46.shtml, please scroll to the part about медуница. Maybe the translator of Sholokhov is correct? Излогий, not in any Akademicheskii slovar', evidently is related to изложина, hence "with many ravines or hollows," for which "folded" (as in folded territory) seems an acceptable choice.
Peer comment(s):
agree Halyna Smakal
3 hrs
Спасибо!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Word from a colleague in Orel University is that медвянка is treated in Slovar' russkikh narodnykh govorov, vol. 18, as Galium verum, Russian name, podmarennik nastoiashchii'. He writes: "Another DIALECT word is medVIAnitsa. In the dictionary the first meaning of medvianka is indicated as 'To zhe, chto medvianitsa' and is marked as Pskov dialect, Tver' dialect, followed by an example from Sholokhov's Tikhii Don." Thus "lungwort" is incorrect for медвянка in translations of Sholokhov. English vernacular names for galium verum, as Marina Aleyeva wrote, "True Bedstraw called also Yellow Bedstraw, Maid's Hair, Cheese Rennet" (see http://books.google.com/books?id=hskGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=fleawort+galium&source=bl&ots=0O6sU7SSKO&sig=H4uHMW8cy-tA96JXFE7Eztn30mk&hl=en&ei=bqosTKLWH83pnQfb8a30Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=fleawort%20galium&f=false). Many thanks for interest and effort in assisting me with this flora problem!"
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