Owen Witesman (asker) Sep 24, 2009:

... ...was novel and a bit awkward. Take a gander at the few "viranomais-" words in MOT...

I must admit, however, when speaking English to calling Finnish mustard "sinappi" and pronouncing the "u" in "sauna" if I'm talking about a sauna with pine or spruce walls rather than the execrable red cedar you find here in the States...they are clearly different products! And porkkanalaatikko is clearly not a casserole, so we call it "carrot box".

Owen Witesman (asker) Sep 24, 2009:

two chains of authority Timo's explanation of this context is absolutely correct--there are two chains of authority, and this term is trying to differentiate the public officials in the organization from others who may not be acting as representatives of the state. The organization also engages in economic activities which don't involve public authority. I think a text written directly into English would not try to put this semantic information in the title of the official, and if it did it would likely just call them "public officials" or some such thing. Adding the word "authority" doesn't really add anything. A "public official" is an employee of the state and has some sort of public authority. A "public employee" on the other hand could be someone like a teacher who is a state employee but has no authority. Using the word "officer" makes the authority even more clear.

This is why a Google search of "public authority official" returns so few results that are actually applicable here.

For this doc, I left "public authority official" because throughout the doc references were made to "public authority". However even the orig. Finnish included an explanation in parens since the usage

urbom Sep 24, 2009:

again, ask the client Yes, there are many cases where a particular term has been adopted and has "gained traction" among those who use it, even though it may not seem like an accurate translation or a natural-sounding term to native English speakers. ("Folk high school" is a particular pet peeve of mine.)

For all we know, the document you're proofreading may be part of a larger body of documents in which "public authority official" is also used, so it would be important to be consistent.

So again: I'd ask the client if they have any preferences regarding the English versions of their job titles. If they do, use them; if not, then you can come up with your own version.

Timo Lehtilä Sep 24, 2009:

Quite a familiar subject for me I have worked as ‘viranomaistoimihenkilö’ and I know what the term and all other things involved mean. Here the part ‘viranomais-‘ can also, and maybe better, be translated as ‘of public interest’. When I served in the Finnish Army as technical officer, I had also ‘viranomaistehtäviä’ (tasks of public authority/interest) like inspecting cars, accepting new equipment to be taken into use etc. When conducting these tasks I wasn’t under the authority of my usual or any other boss, but under ‘viranomaispäällikkö’ (chief executive of public authority in that field) located in the General Headquarters. //

The term ‘public authority official’ is quite largely used in many countries. Quite obviously, language isn’t a thing that anybody has an authority over, even more so over English. There are many English speaking countries at the moment and every one is creating their own official and authorized terms. And when English is more and more a world language, also non-English-speaking countries start creating their own official and authorized English terms. Sorry, Englishmen, Americans, Indians, Australians, that’s the general rule of this world, nobody e

Owen Witesman (asker) Sep 24, 2009:

erm I totally agree with the point that in official documents often a stilted literal translation is apropos, but in this case I don't even think that "public authority official" is a direct translation. The whole "public authority" part seems totally screwy to me. If I wanted to just translate the words, I would say "official functionary" of "official officer". The funny thing about this is that of the translations for each of the two component words, about half of them overlap. It's like trying to say "an official official" or and "authorized authority". A "viranomainen" and a "toimihenkilö" (in a public administration context) are exactly the same thing. I think that really the previous law translation should just have said "public officials".

urbom Sep 23, 2009:

or "...public-sector liaison..."

urbom Sep 23, 2009:

eureka Just occurred to me: obviously with the language of statutes, regulations etc. the cardinal rule is to use the exact wording that's in the original document, so "public authority official" would be the client-pleasing option.

But otherwise, how about "senior public liaison officer"?

Owen Witesman (asker) Sep 23, 2009:

silly us Silly translators not knowing that each word has a one-to-one equivalent in each language!

urbom Sep 23, 2009:

Even so... Many a time I've heard back that a client was unhappy because I'd translated a job title with what I thought was the best equivalent, only to hear afterwards that their standard term is something completely different (which they hadn't bothered to mention before that point).

Owen Witesman (asker) Sep 23, 2009:

Just proofing! I'm just proofing, so I'm not going to go quite that far! I wonder about using the word "functionary"...probably not for a title. Maybe "public officer" for viranomaistoimihenkilö and "senior public officer" for viranomaispäällikkö.

urbom Sep 23, 2009:

better yet... ask the client/agency Finnish companies/orgs often have their own preferred English versions of their internal job titles -- and they don't always correspond to what one might expect...

Owen Witesman (asker) Sep 23, 2009:

I like it. Perhaps I should explain my dissatisfaction with the existing term (and longer explanatory terms). The position being described is not terribly uncommon around the world. The metsäkeskus is essentially a semi-independent public corporation. There are thousands of these, which go by different names in different countries (quangos in the UK as Ruth points out). There has to be common terminology for officials in these organizations, and the terms can't be nine words long. The problem I have with "public authority official" is that as a native English speaker, it doesn't sound natural to me, and when I Google it the results are all from non-native sources (or about the Palestinian Authority!)

urbom Sep 23, 2009:

can't answer for points -- I'm not a paying member How about "senior officer" or "senior official" for the toimihenkilö part? FWIW, these organisations are called quangos (for "quasi-nongovernmental organisation") in the UK.