Pages in topic: [1 2] > | MT: the best CAT? Thread poster: Shouguang Cao
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A: MT is already pretty good. B: MT is not good enough to replace human. Then a natural conclusion is that MT represents best CAT tool if used properly? | | | Lincoln Hui Hong Kong Local time: 04:46 Member Chinese to English + ...
Overlooking for a moment the questions being begged here, it escapes me how the conclusion is reached from the premises offered. | | | Flawed logic | Jul 19, 2017 |
I don’t understand the logic. I think you are comparing two incomparable things. Apples and oranges. Computer-assisted/computer-aided or machine-assisted translation environments cannot be confused with machine translation. This is Wikipedia stuff. Of course, in a CAT tool, you can use MT as a resource. So what’s your point? | | | Shouguang Cao China Local time: 04:46 English to Chinese + ... TOPIC STARTER
I thought MT itself is already computer-aided translation. Not sure how exactly those terms are defined, but from it's literal meaning, Firstly, using a computer to translate as opposed to using a pen and paper, is Computer-Aided Translation (CAT 1.0) Then, using TM tools (CAT 2.0) And then perhaps using MT represents the latest Computer-Aid-Translation trend (thus CAT 3.0) Dallas | |
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Maija Cirule Latvia Local time: 23:46 German to English + ... Strange question | Jul 19, 2017 |
Shouguang Cao wrote: A: MT is already pretty good. B: MT is not good enough to replace human. Then a natural conclusion is that MT represents best CAT tool if used properly? A cat is a living thing. Shouguang Cao is a living thing The conclusion: Shouguang Cao is a cat Something along these lines | | |
In Machine Translation (Automated translation of natural languages), a software carries out the translation process from start to finish. It’s the machine that translates. Of course, the human (currently) has a place in this process, in the form of pre- and post-editing, machine training, etc. (and of course, all the data used to train the MT engine are a product of human translators/editors). In Computer-Aided Translation, the translation is carried out by a human, with the help ... See more In Machine Translation (Automated translation of natural languages), a software carries out the translation process from start to finish. It’s the machine that translates. Of course, the human (currently) has a place in this process, in the form of pre- and post-editing, machine training, etc. (and of course, all the data used to train the MT engine are a product of human translators/editors). In Computer-Aided Translation, the translation is carried out by a human, with the help of a computer and a specialized software (CAT tool). So, in Computer-Aided Translation, it’s the human that translates. That is why you cannot confuse Machine Translation and Computer-Aided translation.
[Edited at 2017-07-19 11:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse | | | Samuel Murray Netherlands Local time: 22:46 Member (2006) English to Afrikaans + ... A CAT tool is a toolkit of tools | Jul 19, 2017 |
Shouguang Cao wrote: A: MT is already pretty good. B: MT is not good enough to replace human. Then a natural conclusion is that MT represents best CAT tool if used properly? A CAT tool is a toolkit of tools that help the translator perform various functions in addition to typing the translation itself. MT by itself can only provide translations. Without a real CAT tool, the translator using only MT would have to perform all those other tasks manually. | | | Shouguang Cao China Local time: 04:46 English to Chinese + ... TOPIC STARTER MT is not CAT? | Jul 19, 2017 |
Is MT CAT? Why TM is CAT but MT is not? Is CAT equal to the so called CAT tools (actually TM tools) ? CAT has to mean more than just the TM tools. I mean if I use MT to help me translate, why cannot I call MT CAT? We can use a tool to mix up human and MT, not just human doing the post editing. For exmaple, with a complicated sentence, I only let the machine translate a section of that sentence to save my time but not the whole sentence. In this situation, MT helps me tr... See more Is MT CAT? Why TM is CAT but MT is not? Is CAT equal to the so called CAT tools (actually TM tools) ? CAT has to mean more than just the TM tools. I mean if I use MT to help me translate, why cannot I call MT CAT? We can use a tool to mix up human and MT, not just human doing the post editing. For exmaple, with a complicated sentence, I only let the machine translate a section of that sentence to save my time but not the whole sentence. In this situation, MT helps me translate, and I am doing computer aided translation. ▲ Collapse | |
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John Fossey Canada Local time: 16:46 Member (2008) French to English + ... Clarifying some definitions | Jul 19, 2017 |
No, MT is not CAT. Perhaps there is some confusion about terms? MT = Machine Translation - the machine translates TM = Translation Memory - sentences already translated are remembered and suggested when a similar sentence needs to be translated CAT = Computer Aided Translation - the human translates, while the computer aids by organizing the work, managing the Translation Memory, presenting the document one segment at a time and other tasks to speed up the human transla... See more No, MT is not CAT. Perhaps there is some confusion about terms? MT = Machine Translation - the machine translates TM = Translation Memory - sentences already translated are remembered and suggested when a similar sentence needs to be translated CAT = Computer Aided Translation - the human translates, while the computer aids by organizing the work, managing the Translation Memory, presenting the document one segment at a time and other tasks to speed up the human translator's work CAT almost always includes TM management. Some CAT tools can include MT as an optional extra. ▲ Collapse | | | Shouguang Cao China Local time: 04:46 English to Chinese + ... TOPIC STARTER Thank you John | Jul 19, 2017 |
Thanks you John for the crystal clear explanation. | | | Wojciech_ (X) Poland Local time: 22:46 English to Polish + ... How I understand it. | Jul 19, 2017 |
I think that Shouguang simply asked why MT can't be called a CAT. Logically, since CAT stands for 'Computer Aided Translation', we could assume that Machine Translation is a form of an aid which involves using computers to provide translations that can later be post-edited by a translator. Historically, however, the term 'CAT' refers only to software like Trados or Deja Vu, which works in a certain, quite specific way. It processes the source text, divides it into segments and uses ... See more I think that Shouguang simply asked why MT can't be called a CAT. Logically, since CAT stands for 'Computer Aided Translation', we could assume that Machine Translation is a form of an aid which involves using computers to provide translations that can later be post-edited by a translator. Historically, however, the term 'CAT' refers only to software like Trados or Deja Vu, which works in a certain, quite specific way. It processes the source text, divides it into segments and uses translation memories, termbases and other tools (yes, also machine translation engines), to HELP the translator translate the text. This is how most of us understand this term and that's why describing a MT engine as a CAT seems a bit odd. But once again, I agree, if the term 'CAT' wasn't so strongly associated with those specific tools like Trados or Deja Vu, then MT could be called a 'computer aided translation tool'. Why not?
[Edited at 2017-07-19 18:36 GMT] ▲ Collapse | | | Shouguang Cao China Local time: 04:46 English to Chinese + ... TOPIC STARTER
Indeed I am thinking if I can call a tool leveraging MT but with no TM feature can be called a CAT tool. Since MT as a technology is so good, it has potential to help translators more than the TM technology. If we consider both MT and TM as equally CAT technology, MT may represent the newer and more helpful CAT.
[Edited at 2017-07-20 02:37 GMT] | |
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neilmac Spain Local time: 22:46 Spanish to English + ...
Well, sort of. I use GT4T and it assists me in my translation work, which I do on the computer. So, by definition, my output could be termed Computer Assisted Translation. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet…" | | | You can call it whatever you want ... | Jul 20, 2017 |
... but no one will understand what you mean if you call it a CAT, because that already means something else. Why not call it an MT tool, if that's what it is? And does it literally contain no TM component? If I make changes to the MT results in one segment and that segment shows up again, will I be presented with the raw MT results again? That doesn't seem very helpful. And I admit that there are gray areas: Most CATs now seem to be able to integrate MT results and I ... See more ... but no one will understand what you mean if you call it a CAT, because that already means something else. Why not call it an MT tool, if that's what it is? And does it literally contain no TM component? If I make changes to the MT results in one segment and that segment shows up again, will I be presented with the raw MT results again? That doesn't seem very helpful. And I admit that there are gray areas: Most CATs now seem to be able to integrate MT results and I recently came across something called Matecat, which is a CAT, but seems to really stretch the limits in terms of its emphasis on integrating MT and the TMs of complete strangers. ▲ Collapse | | | Shouguang Cao China Local time: 04:46 English to Chinese + ... TOPIC STARTER still helpful | Jul 21, 2017 |
Michael Wetzel wrote: Why not call it an MT tool, if that's what it is? And does it literally contain no TM component? If I make changes to the MT results in one segment and that segment shows up again, will I be presented with the raw MT results again? That doesn't seem very helpful. Hi Michael, With GT4T you can add a translation of a term to glossary, Your text will be "translated" with the glossary first and then submit to MT. In this way, the term will always be translated correctly. Dallas | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » MT: the best CAT? Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
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