Kurasa katika mada:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150] >
Off topic: 泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿
Uwekaji wa uzi: QHE

wherestip  Identity Verified
Marekani
Local time: 21:24
Mandarini/Kichina hadi Kiingereza
+ ...
English Lit May 6, 2014

Phil,

I took the easy way out, and skipped English Lit altogether. My BSEE curriculum had the option of substituting a classical music appreciation course for English Literature, the third English course after the compulsory English Comp I and English Comp II.

At that stage of my life, enriching my knowledge in English literature was definitely not high on my list; I was in a hurry to finish college and start a career here in the U.S. after finally getting back.


[Edited at 2014-05-07 00:33 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
Marekani
Local time: 21:24
Mandarini/Kichina hadi Kiingereza
+ ...
Yet another reading ... May 6, 2014

I promise this will be the last post on the poem from me.

The poem is quoted in a sermon by a Reverend Alan Ramsey who ministers at a prominent church at the University of Oxford. See how he interprets the 2nd stanza ...


http://www.university-church.ox.ac.uk/documents/Revd_AlanRamsey_011213.pdf



I’d like us to ask a simple question of ourselves this morning: are we dead or are we alive?
I’ll begin with Philip Larkin’s poem ‘Days’.

What are days for?

Days are where we live.
They come, they wake us
Time and time over.

They are to be happy in:
Where can we live but days?

Ah, solving that question

Brings the priest and the doctor
In their long coats

Running over the fields.

For Larkin, when our days are over there’s nowhere else to live. So the happiness of now is always overshadowed by tomorrow’s death. That future event when the priest and doctor can no longer help.



Many of us wait for a fairytale day when another life will come to us but it never does. And now the timer starts beeping. The doctor and the priest are running over the field. What if it’s too late? Jesus exhorts the disciples: “Don’t build a great house guys and then become so drowsy you don’t notice it being ransacked while you’re dribbling on your pillow.”



When the priest and doctor in their long coats arrive at our bedsides on the hour of our passing may we say “I did it: I lived the life I desired, I remained purposefully present to the Holy Spirit. I spent my days well.” In this first week of Advent may we welcome all the days of the Lord and find joy in them.




~*~*~*~*~*~*~*




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Church_of_St_Mary_the_Virgin

The University Church of St Mary the Virgin (St Mary's or SMV for short) is the largest of Oxford's parish churches[citation needed] and the centre from which the University of Oxford grew. It is situated on the north side of the High Street, and is surrounded by university and college buildings.



Direct link Reply with quote
 
Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 20:24
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
小沈阳的智慧 May 7, 2014

"我岁数小,可是我总结了。人的一生其实可短暂了,哈。就是跟睡觉一样一样的,眼睛一闭,一睁,一天过去了,哈。 眼睛一闭,不睁,这辈子就过去了。"

Direct link Reply with quote
 

David Lin  Identity Verified
Uingereza
Local time: 03:24
Mwanachama(2013)
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...

Msimamizi wa mdahalo huu
已经翻译出来了 May 7, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

David Lin wrote:


”至于现在,如果它永远是现在,从来不会成为过去,它就不会是时间,而是永恒。“



这样翻译的话,的确更简练了,而且读起来也更通顺了,当然意思也没错。不过,我们是不是可以把 move on 这样的字眼翻译出来呢?



'成为' 过去

字典对于 move on 有三个解释:

— verb
1. to go or cause (someone) to leave somewhere
2. ( intr ) to progress; evolve: football has moved on since then
3. ( intr ) to put a difficult experience behind one and progress mentally or emotionally

例句: 朋友,不要再为这事感到悲伤,事情发展到这个地步已经没法改变,就让它成为过去吧。

你也想一下有什么其他描述 ‘过去’ 的词语,最好是动词,也适合这个比较严肃、简洁及有逻辑性的名句。

一個原則 - 在翻译名句时用词越浅白越好,因为句子本身意义已够深长,如果用深奥词语翻译会令人更摸不著头脑。


Direct link Reply with quote
 
QHE
Marekani
Local time: 22:24
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...
KIANZISHI MADA
什么是科学 May 7, 2014

Phil Hand wrote: 医生比喻科学

是诗,当然有多重意义,不能绝对论定,但文学老师一般是这样解释的:日子究竟是什么东西是一种大的哲学问题,适合每个人自己去琢磨琢磨。科学和宗教却连忙宣传自己独有的答案。拉金觉得两者都很教条,因此创造了这个讽刺的场景,身穿长袍在田野中跑来跑去确实有点不雅。但他们就是紧张,问起这个问题来,他们都不希望我们自己去独立思考,所以赶过来好好教育我们。


“诗,。。。多重意义,。。。文学老师。。。解释。。。日子。。。大的哲学问题,适合。。。自己。。。琢磨。科学和宗教却连忙宣传自己独有的答案。拉金觉得两者都很教条,。。。创造。。。讽刺的场景,身穿长袍。。。跑来跑去。但他们就是紧张,问起这个问题来,他们都不希望我们自己去独立思考,所以赶过来好好教育我们。"


我想, 对宗教和科学( or priest and doctor ) 持有以上见解的人 ,文学老师也好,拉金也好(如果拉金对科学和宗教的理解的确如此),他们都忽视了 (或不敢正视)高尚美好的存在。

不谈宗教(or the purpose of life), 就科学本身而言:我认为持上述观点的人至少没有领略到什么是真正的科学; 至少忽略了科学发展的渊源和伟大宗意. 为什么这样讲?只需看一下Albert Einstein 的这几句名言:


The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science.
Albert Einstein

To raise new questions, new possibilities, to regard old problems from a new angle, requires creative imagination and marks real advance in science.
Albert Einstein

The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all our lives.
Albert Einstein

There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can live as if everything is a miracle.
Albert Einstein

That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.
Albert Einstein



BTW, Professor Lisa Jardine, the British historian of the early modern period, called Philip Larkin a "casual, habitual racist, and an easy misogynist". (ref. Wiki)

p.s., 其实,如果论坛里的朋友们也被加冕上某种显赫称号,那么, walking back, 从旧贴见解里也很可能挖掘出不同深度层次的新意来。


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
Uchina
Local time: 10:24
Mwanachama(2007)
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...
谢谢您的搜索! May 7, 2014

wherestip wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with the analysis of this one. But it's worth a read ...

http://eraofcasualfridays.net/2011/04/19/what-are-days-for/


BTW, he interprets "doctors" as theologians as J.H. suggested. That, IMO, indeed could be a valid interpretation.


Steve, 感谢您的辛苦搜索!


先不论哪一种是作者的本意,至少让我们看到了不同的解读方式,开阔了视野。


Direct link Reply with quote
 

J.H. Wang
Uchina
Local time: 10:24
Mwanachama(2007)
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...
我接受的语文教育 May 7, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

Those are lovely links, Steve. All great readings of the poem. This was why I hated English at school, and the literature I did in other languages: they always wanted you to pick one interpretation. Either they taught you the "correct" reading, or if it was a progressive teacher, you could try your own reading, which you could then defend in an essay. But I never wanted to choose! It's not the choosing that makes the poem work, it's the accepting of other alternatives!

I was bemused for a moment by QHE's suggestion above about the word "present" in the sense of 呈现, but he's right. I hadn't seen that reading, but it's definitely there. And now my reading of that passage is better, because I see more in it. We become better readers and better translators by allowing more meanings in (within limits!), not by deciding which one is right.

Of course, that applies more to literature than to other genres.


我们当时学习语文时,最讨厌的事情是老师让你给课文划分段落,总结段落大意,文章中心思想,并教给你正确的答案。呵呵。

我觉得语文教学的基本内容应该是掌握词汇,学会规范的语言表达方式。


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
Marekani
Local time: 21:24
Mandarini/Kichina hadi Kiingereza
+ ...
开阔视野 May 7, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

Steve, 感谢您的辛苦搜索!


先不论哪一种是作者的本意,至少让我们看到了不同的解读方式,开阔了视野。


J.H.,

不客气。 你说得对。 我个人对这种语言理解方面的讨论是比较感兴趣的。 有的东西看看别人的意见,有时对自己也很有启发。比如 那位Mark Richardson 对这首诗的分析, 我觉得虽然可说是对 Larkin 人生看法评价得比较黯淡,也是不无道理的。 回头再看看 Wikipedia 对 Larkin 生平的概括介绍,也许 Richardson 的分析还是比较透彻的呢。 更加后者的写作文笔也很好,就是观点不一定对, 我觉得也是值得一读的。

http://eraofcasualfridays.net/2011/04/19/what-are-days-for/


Direct link Reply with quote
 

David Lin  Identity Verified
Uingereza
Local time: 03:24
Mwanachama(2013)
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...

Msimamizi wa mdahalo huu
我的學習經驗 May 7, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

Phil Hand wrote:

Those are lovely links, Steve. All great readings of the poem. This was why I hated English at school, and the literature I did in other languages: they always wanted you to pick one interpretation. Either they taught you the "correct" reading, or if it was a progressive teacher, you could try your own reading, which you could then defend in an essay. But I never wanted to choose! It's not the choosing that makes the poem work, it's the accepting of other alternatives!

I was bemused for a moment by QHE's suggestion above about the word "present" in the sense of 呈现, but he's right. I hadn't seen that reading, but it's definitely there. And now my reading of that passage is better, because I see more in it. We become better readers and better translators by allowing more meanings in (within limits!), not by deciding which one is right.

Of course, that applies more to literature than to other genres.


我们当时学习语文时,最讨厌的事情是老师让你给课文划分段落,总结段落大意,文章中心思想,并教给你正确的答案。呵呵。

我觉得语文教学的基本内容应该是掌握词汇,学会规范的语言表达方式。


记得学习英国文学时,老师的方法是教导我们对原文意思有基本的理解,好像莎士比亚的罗密欧与朱丽叶及威尼斯的商人。这些古文由于词语艰深(对我来说),一下子不容易明白,当时感觉很枯燥乏味。最惨是老师还要求我们死背内容。当时觉得真的非常无聊。还有,老师在学期末突然要求我们学习 creative writing, 什么 “What if you die in three days?” 我们都想不如现在马上死了算。可是后来回想起来,原来这些要求对于我的英文写作基础其实有莫大的帮助。那時候才曉得,原來是老師的一片苦心。


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
Uchina
Local time: 10:24
Mandarini/Kichina hadi Kiingereza
很准 May 7, 2014

QHE wrote:

我想, 对宗教和科学( or priest and doctor ) 持有以上见解的人 ,文学老师也好,拉金也好(如果拉金对科学和宗教的理解的确如此),他们都忽视了 (或不敢正视)高尚美好的存在。

据我理解,拉金确实那样子的人,很消极,很不人道。说不定我喜欢他的诗不是什么好事呢!但我实在觉得他用最口头话的语调来歌颂最宏大的诗意,就是诗的最高境界之一。

顺便说,我喜欢的中文诗应该也算糟糕:张绍民,农民工诗人 http://blog.sina.com.cn/zhangshouhuo2005

癌症是特产

癌症是特产的村庄
癌症成为身体
癌症成为粮食
癌症是特产的人生
癌症吃掉了无辜
癌症吃掉了生命
癌症是特产的地方
癌症的作者建立工程后跑掉
留下痛苦作为利益后遗症
留下癌症的魔鬼害人
癌症是特产的地方
魔鬼派出癌症的打手到处抓人打人


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
Uchina
Local time: 10:24
Mandarini/Kichina hadi Kiingereza
Another nice one May 8, 2014

A recent news story: http://www.proz.com/translation-news/?p=94778
Chinese translation for Dylan Thomas poems

这首并不难解读:
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jvN1cJLJ3M

不要轻轻走入那个美妙的夜晚,
晚年应在终结时燃烧与怒号,
面对正在消失的光明咆哮咆哮。

虽然指着临终时知道黑暗正确,
自己的言行未曾发出闪电,
他们不要轻轻走入那个美妙的夜晚。

[Edited at 2014-05-08 08:15 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
QHE
Marekani
Local time: 22:24
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...
KIANZISHI MADA
不如去欣赏一下PKChan 先生 精选的动听歌曲不朽之声 May 8, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

QHE wrote:

我想, 对宗教和科学( or priest and doctor ) 持有以上见解的人 ,文学老师也好,拉金也好(如果拉金对科学和宗教的理解的确如此),他们都忽视了 (或不敢正视)高尚美好的存在。

据我理解,拉金确实那样子的人,很消极,很不人道。说不定我喜欢他的诗不是什么好事呢!但我实在觉得他用最口头话的语调来歌颂最宏大的诗意,就是诗的最高境界之一。

顺便说,我喜欢的中文诗应该也算糟糕:张绍民,农民工诗人 http://blog.sina.com.cn/zhangshouhuo2005



Direct link Reply with quote
 
QHE
Marekani
Local time: 22:24
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...
KIANZISHI MADA
松柏 May 8, 2014

记得在中国 国画中经常看到松柏, 觉得不应该列入庭院忌讳. 一 查百度, 原来名人志士确实植松柏于庭院中.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/844798.htm


常绿乔木,喜温抗寒,对土壤酸碱度适应性强,广泛分布于我国华北南部及华东地区,亦常用作园林作观赏树种。中国人民自古以来就对松树怀有一种特殊的感情,常用松柏象征坚强不屈的品格,并把松、竹、梅誉为“岁寒三友”。

荀子《大略》中言道:"岁不寒,无以知松柏。事不难,无以知君子"

*********

宋代大文学家苏东坡一生酷爱松树,少年时代,他年年都要栽植松树,十余年间,亲手栽的松树多达数万株。《东记》中有"予少年颇知种松,手植数万株,皆中梁柱矣"的记载。被贬黄州时,他以老农自居,在住所周围栽松,以"处处松木郁盛"引以自乐。

方志敏《对联》中写道:"心有三爱,奇书骏马佳山水,园栽四物,青松翠竹白梅兰。"陈毅元帅有诗一首《冬夜杂咏》赞扬松之高洁:"大雪压青松,青松挺且直,要知松高洁,待到雪化时。"聂荣臻元帅对松柏情有独钟,在他居住的院子里处处都是挺立的松柏,就连室内墙上挂的国画也全是松柏图,80岁生日时,还自题"喜松柏之气概,念四化之早成"的联句。

著名哲学家,北京大学冯友兰教授寓居北大燕南园30余年,庭院内有松3棵,于是命其居室为"三松堂",以铭其志。松树象征着坚韧、顽强、不渝和永恒,人们歌颂它,赞美它,甚至建议把它推举为国树.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

David Lin  Identity Verified
Uingereza
Local time: 03:24
Mwanachama(2013)
Kiingereza hadi Mandarini/Kichina
+ ...

Msimamizi wa mdahalo huu
岁寒三友 May 8, 2014

QHE wrote:

记得在中国 国画中经常看到松柏, 觉得不应该列入庭院忌讳. 一 查百度, 原来名人志士确实植松柏于庭院中.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/844798.htm


常绿乔木,喜温抗寒,对土壤酸碱度适应性强,广泛分布于我国华北南部及华东地区,亦常用作园林作观赏树种。中国人民自古以来就对松树怀有一种特殊的感情,常用松柏象征坚强不屈的品格,并把松、竹、梅誉为“岁寒三友”。

荀子《大略》中言道:"岁不寒,无以知松柏。事不难,无以知君子"

*********

宋代大文学家苏东坡一生酷爱松树,少年时代,他年年都要栽植松树,十余年间,亲手栽的松树多达数万株。《东记》中有"予少年颇知种松,手植数万株,皆中梁柱矣"的记载。被贬黄州时,他以老农自居,在住所周围栽松,以"处处松木郁盛"引以自乐。

方志敏《对联》中写道:"心有三爱,奇书骏马佳山水,园栽四物,青松翠竹白梅兰。"陈毅元帅有诗一首《冬夜杂咏》赞扬松之高洁:"大雪压青松,青松挺且直,要知松高洁,待到雪化时。"聂荣臻元帅对松柏情有独钟,在他居住的院子里处处都是挺立的松柏,就连室内墙上挂的国画也全是松柏图,80岁生日时,还自题"喜松柏之气概,念四化之早成"的联句。

著名哲学家,北京大学冯友兰教授寓居北大燕南园30余年,庭院内有松3棵,于是命其居室为"三松堂",以铭其志。松树象征着坚韧、顽强、不渝和永恒,人们歌颂它,赞美它,甚至建议把它推举为国树.



我不如苏轼、冯芝生或孙卿等这些名人雅士或将军烈士,但是家里就种了两棵来自九寨沟的红竹,三株北欧松树和柏树及英国土产的梅树。夏天时看著松鼠在松柏树上出没采摘松果,或互相追逐嬉戏,从一株树顶 “飞” 跳到另一株树干,犹如武侠小说描述的雪山飞狐,煞是好看。


Direct link Reply with quote
 

wherestip  Identity Verified
Marekani
Local time: 21:24
Mandarini/Kichina hadi Kiingereza
+ ...
my own prejudice/preference May 8, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

A recent news story: http://www.proz.com/translation-news/?p=94778
Chinese translation for Dylan Thomas poems

这首并不难解读:
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jvN1cJLJ3M

不要轻轻走入那个美妙的夜晚,
晚年应在终结时燃烧与怒号,
面对正在消失的光明咆哮咆哮。

虽然指着临终时知道黑暗正确,
自己的言行未曾发出闪电,
他们不要轻轻走入那个美妙的夜晚。



Phil,

wise men ——》 智者

我本人是不习惯这样说的,可能是 当今畅行的词汇吧. 不过我懂得是什么意思,尤其是有英文对照。

无论什么文章,我都是宁愿看原文,不管是中还是英。


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Kurasa katika mada:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿

Advanced search






Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »
BaccS – Business Accounting Software
Modern desktop project management for freelance translators

BaccS makes it easy for translators to manage their projects, schedule tasks, create invoices, and view highly customizable reports. User-friendly, ProZ.com integration, community-driven development – a few reasons BaccS is trusted by translators!

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Kutafuta neno
  • Kazi
  • Mabaraza
  • Multiple search